HOSTESS WONDER EXCONS NEWSLETTER
Everett Ford, Editor January,
A Newsletter For Management Retirees And Management Employees
Of Hostess Cakes And Wonder Bread
Formerly Continental Baking Company
To contact the Editor click on the highlighted text below
Editors e-mail address
IBC CHANGES CORPORATE NAME AND CITY
Earlier this year IBC moved their corporate offices to Irving, Texas. In a press release dated November 2, 2009, they announced they were changing the name of their corporation to Hostess Brands Inc. According to CEO CRAIG JUNG, they chose this name because Hostess is their best selling product line and is held in high regard and well recognized by consumers, customers and employees.
BILL BARRON, former GM of Pomona, will be the Western correspondent for the EXCONS newsletter starting with his article in this issue. BILL is a welcome addition to the newsletter and, as you will see from his article below, he has inspired additional participants.
FIRST INDIANA LUNCHEON AND GOLF OUTING HAS SLOW START
Our first attempt at a golf outing and luncheon here in Indiana ended with 5 for golf and 11 for the luncheon. This was admittedly a disappointing turn out, but the number of folks who say they will attend next year encourages us. I want to thank LARRY WORLEY for his help in putting the outing together. SUE, as always, was also a great help. Below are the luncheon attendees.
Starting head of table foreground clockwise Joan & Ray Stuart, Eddie Trumble, Herb Van Wyk, Bert Schott, Everett & Sue Ford, Larry & Madalyn Worley and Ken & Mary Kretz.
HERB VANWYK at 91 traveled the furthest to attend. We were impressed with him being as active as a man 60.
Below are those who attended the golf outing. KEN KRETZ had closest to the pin, BERT SCHOTT the longest put and JERRY WILLIAMS longest drive.
L-R Bert Schott, Jerry Williams, Larry Worley, Everett Ford and Ken Kretz
BILL BARRON REPORTS
Home of Silicon and Silicone Valleys
My wife ARLA, who was my high school sweetheart, and I have been married for 55 years and grew up here in Orange, CA. We enjoy traveling and just returned recently from Hawaii and plan an Alaskan cruise next year. I look forward to hearing from you. Please contact me by email email@example.com or snail mail Bill Barron, 473 S Wheeler Pl, Orange, CA 92869-4734.
BILL WILLIAMS and MARY, who both spent many years in the retail portion of our business, keep quite busy in the Corona area where they live. They bowl in a league twice a week. Bill says Mary is really pretty good. However to his surprise he did win a senior league tournament this year. He says if you start waving money at him it gets his attention. MARY has her own business called “Kick the Klutter”. She organizes
people’s homes, (closets, cabinets, office or whatever) and then has a garage sale for them to get rid of the stuff. They also do a lot of charity work for their church and “Wings of Faith”. To say they keep busy is an understatement.
RICK ELLIOTT reports from Klamath Falls, Oregon that he and GLORIA just enjoy doing what we want to do; traveling, snow birding in the winter and the lakes in the summer, working in the yard, teaching classes at church, singing in the church choir, Red Cross volunteering and being local high school sports fans.
BILL RUSSELL writes from San Francisco, “I keep busy as a volunteer calling on and visiting patients in hospitals who have opted to have surgery without a blood transfusion. In addition, I make presentations to doctors, medical teams, risk managers and hospital administration on strategies and techniques on how to avoid blood transfusions”.
BOB JOHANSEN writes he is working and still trying to build the Wonder Bread and Hostess Brands in Utah. He reports, “Last year was a tough year for the Ex-Cons in Utah.
DARRELL OGDEN, former GM Salt Lake and Ogden, passed away June 7 2008. DARRELL was 75 years old.
LYLE WORTHINGTON, former GM Salt Lake and Ogden, passed away January 10, 2009. LYLE was 90 years old.
BILL LODDER, former Salt Lake Distributor Sales Manager, passed away January 29, 2009. BILL was 84 years old.
“These men really set the foundation for success and were the mentors for a lot of us in the Utah market. We miss them a lot”.
HENRY GIVENS who retired from Continental in 1995, reports from Utah, that he has stayed in close contact with some of his fellow workers. For many years he, LYLE WORTHINGTON, DARRELL OGDEN, TOM HOLDAWAY, and BILL LODDER along with their wives, got together for a luncheon twice a year. Henry reports that he was honored to speak at Lyle’s funeral and that he and Darrell remained quite close and golfed and fished together until just a few months before Darrell passed away.
MIKE WALTERS checked in from Hawaii, where he is now part owner and President of Love’s Bakery. The Bakery continues to make and deliver Hawaii’s freshest breads and employs some 350 people, making it the state’s largest manufacturer; it has been an Island tradition since 1851. Pictured here; President, Mike Walters and Vice President Bryon Chong.
GARY VESTERBY checked in from Goodyear Arizona. He said, “I left the company in March of 2006 after 37 years. I tried playing golf 4-5 days a week and got bored, so I started a company called Vanguard Residential Care. My company takes care of client’s homes when they are not staying here in the Arizona area”. Gary and LUCY are active members of the Goodyear White Tanks Rotary Club where they volunteer for various service duties throughout the area, which includes trips to Mexico to distribute Polio Drops and Wheelchairs to the young and needy. They enjoy spending time together and traveling.
RUSS CALKINS reported in from Boise, Idaho where he is working for Sara Lee Fresh Bakery as the Category Insights Manager of the Western Region. and is always up to a golf game, if we get one going.
I spoke to RAY FACCENDA and he and MARLENE are doing well and living in Rancho Mirage, CA. They spent Thanksgiving Day with their family at their grandson’s home in Victorville. They enjoy the life of retirement in the desert and Ray is still trying to master the game of golf and plays a couple of times a week.
CLIFF SEHORN says he hasn’t been receiving the Newsletter since he moved to Fallbrook and would like to start getting it again. He and KAY spend most of the summer months in Laughlin with their Jet Ski’s and the winters in the desert with Dune Buggy’s and in between all that they still find time for Hawaii and Cruises. They met with LARRY RIEMER, JIM MOTT and STEVE SAURES in Laughlin in September and they will be getting together with BUD JENSEN and his wife in November.
MIKE YOUNGER retired June 28, 2009 after 46 ½ years. He spent 26 ½ years in route sales and 20 years in the retail end of the business. He said he has been playing in a lot of Senior Golf Tournaments. His wife MEEDIE joined him in retirement in November. Here is Mike pictured at his retirement dinner with RAY FACCENDA and BILL BARRON.
AL MANISCO reports he and MARY ANN are still living in the San Fernando Valley. (The earthquakes have not scared them off yet) Al had a bout with Cancer four years ago and went through chemotherapy treatment. He suffers now from Neuropathy which affects his legs and hands, but aside from that, Al is always positive and says he and Mary Ann are doing well.
KELLY DRYDEN is still holding down the fort in Pomona where she is the IBC Business Unit Human Resources Director for all of California. Wow, Kelly you come a long way since those early secretary days at the Beverly Hills Bakery.
STAN CURATOLO reported he and his wife ROSE ANN just celebrated 50 years of marriage, with a party, in September of 2009. In attendance were RAY and MARLENE FACCENDA, JIM and VIRGINIA PRITCHARD and WAYNE and HELEN GOBLE. All these men worked together at one time. Ray a Vice President, Jim a General Manager of Dayton and Toledo, Ohio, Wayne was with Wonder Bread out of Beverly Hills and Stan was with Hostess Cake, Los Angeles. Stan keeps busy with a home in the desert and one in Carlsbad, California.
GENE NUZIARD reported that he and MARILYN are both still in good health and living in their home, of many years, in the Los Angeles area. They have enjoyed doing some traveling. Gene keeps busy working with the Queens Care Foundation and Marilyn is still active in tennis.
LEONARD TIERNEY and CAROLINE always enjoy getting EVERETT FORD’S NEWSLETTER. Caroline reported, “Leonard had a heart attack on October 20, 2009 and he is home now, recovering one day at a time”. I called and spoke to Leonard and found out that he had also taken a fall sometime back and broke his hip and had to have hip replacement surgery. Then in October he had a massive heart attack and he said he really almost bit the bullet. WOW, glad the good Lord wasn’t ready for you Leonard.
DALE MCCONNELL reports that he has been retired now for 17 years where he and SUE live in Sun City West, Arizona. He did say they get together with PATTI and EARLE ERICKSON at least once a year in Laughlin and catch up on the comings and goings of their families. They have taken several cruises; Panama, Hawaii and Mexico. They still get out of the heat every year in August and go to Lake Tahoe for three weeks. Dale says through the years he has golfed but lately his 81 year old back has been bothering him and slowed him down a bit.
BILL LUJAN says, “I am currently working for Lowe's Home Improvement Centers. I am still too young to fully retire, what I do now is no pressure and a lot of fun. We live in North Scottsdale, AZ. where the desert is beautiful, and there are plenty of golf courses to take advantage of”. “The people are very friendly here and watch out for their neighbors. We spend time traveling, and seeing our two grandchildren. Life is good, thank the LORD”.
EARLE ERICKSON reported in; “I find it hard to believe that 14 years has gone by this fast since I retired. I stay just as busy now as I did on my job. PATTY and I play a little golf, and really enjoy traveling. We cruise quite often, over 20 cruises so far and we are booked for our 57th Wedding Anniversary in December. I am a Director of my Lodge and the Building Association and it takes up a lot of my time. Sales is still in my blood, I buy and sell things for fun, mainly golf clubs--anybody interested?”
DUANE LOGAN emailed and said, “at 77 I’m still hanging in there. CLETA and I live from November through April in Crystal River, Florida and in Aurora, Colorado May through October. .I have been retired 16 years, seems impossible that time has passed so fast. Eating out, some traveling, church, family and friends keeps us busy enough. I think just about everyone I know from Wonder and Hostess has retired or passed on. It seems I hardly know
anyone as I read the EXCONS NEWSLETTER. Thanks for getting the West involved more”.
GEORGE PICCIOTTO sent a note saying; “I haven’t much news or exciting information to pass along. I have been getting the NEWSLETTER since retiring and do enjoy it. Sometimes it’s a little depressing to see how everyone else is aging. Our early retirement years of travel are no more. We have gotten more sedentary and poke around the yard, book sales, and Grandchildren activities. We have seven Grandchildren ranging from 21 to 6 years, from Virginia to Thousand Oaks and Claremont”.
MARVIN REYBURN reported in from Santa Rosa. He and KARREN just celebrated 52 years of marriage. Their one son and one daughter and their one and only granddaughter all live close by in the Santa Rosa area. Thanks to a nice retirement package (which is a thing of the past with most companies now) he and KARREN have been able to travel and enjoy the fruits of their years of work. Marv says, “I am proud of the Kidney Transplant I received after a year and half on Kidney Dialysis, my wife Karren, donated a life-saving kidney to me in 1993 and it is still working fine after 16 years. Our son just received a kidney, this year, from his aunt, Karren’s sister, and he is doing fine also”.
JOE MORGAN reported that he has not received the CBC Newsletter for many years and would like to receive it again. Joe says he stays very busy and is slowly working on a degree in History at Armstrong-Atlantic State University. He
also tutors ten hours each week at the Writing Center teaching college students to write and develop their papers. He and THERESA continue to travel. Joe plays bridge and poker and participates in a Men’s Book Club, swims at least three times each week and has accumulated more than 4600 miles swimming since retirement.
WALLY WHITE wrote in from Arvada, Colorado. “I started in the baking business at age 18 for Omar, Inc. which was bought by CBC around 1957. After entering the military and returning from Korea I went back to college and worked summer jobs in sales at Omar until I graduated and was a Personnel trainee when we were bought by CBC. I was transferred to Denver in 1962 as the Personnel Manager. We really found a home here and were never interested in going anywhere else. I retired on January 1, 1995. The Denver chapter of the X-Cons meets the third Thursday each month. The management people in the group are; BERNIE PETERS (Comptroller), DEL LEBSACK (Office Supervisor), ART DENGG (Chief Engineer), PAUL WHITESEL (Retail Sales Manager), SAM GABLE (Receiving Foreman), and BARRY LEISURE (Bread Production Superintendent).”
ART THOMPSON sent a note in from Peoria, Arizona, where he and MONA moved 23 years ago when he retired. Art said, “We live in a retirement community and there is always plenty to do for fun and entertainment. We spend
eight months in Arizona, then travel or visit our son in Seattle and we usually take a cruise each year. We will celebrate our 67th Wedding Anniversary on January 2, 2010, then our 87th Birthdays in April and June of 2010.”
JACK HOWELL phoned in from Mesa, Arizona where he and MARLENE have lived since retiring from CBC after 33 years. Both their Son and Daughter live close by and their family just grew by three when their Granddaughter recently had triplets. I guess Jack got bored with retirement and missed the everyday life in the baking industry and went back to work for Oroweat, in Arizona. He worked 10 years with them and then retired again and then did consulting for another five years after that. Jack said he worked until he was 71 years old and is thoroughly enjoying retirement now and he and Marlene are doing well.
FLOYD BARCUS reported in from Arizona, “Aneta and I have sold our home of 22 years in Sun City West. I will continue to be in contact with Everett, as we will soon be in the east. In fact our furniture will be loaded December 13th and arrive before Christmas. We will be close to our children and their families”. Our new address:
Floyd and Aneta Barcus
316 Woodridge Pass
Canton, GA. 30114.
THE INCOMING MAIL
First I want to thank TOM ROLFS for joining ERNIE STOLZER and myself as Trustees for the retirees’ NEBCO insurance. TOM’S expertise will be invaluable. As other plans have increased an average of 10% for 2010 NEBCO has held the increase to 3.49%. Everyone seems to be very happy with the service of NEBCO and if you would like information please call 1-888-883-3757, a toll free number, and ask to speak to someone about the Continental Baking/Interstate Brands Retirees Coalition Health Care Plan.
AL and VICKIE WEISS are doing great at 84 and 82. Looking forward to Christmas and seeing sons, 5 g-kids and 12 g-g kids.
This year two more EXCONS joined us for our yearly fishing trip to Canada. GREG WILKERSON, who is now Regional Food Safety Manager for IBC and LARRY WORLEY, recently retired VP Midwest Sales. Below are a few pictures.
Greg Wilkerson and Jerry Emley
Larry Worley and Greg Wilkerson
A frightened black bear
JERRY and JUDI EMLEY joined SUE and I, along with another couple, on a week long houseboat rental on Kentucky Lake. It was a Sunday to Sunday rental in the later part of September, and we anchored in a different cove each evening. It was a great time.
53 Foot Rental Houseboat
JEFF GORDON, son of BOB GORDON, sent his apology for not attending the September outing. He had a trip to Belize planned during that time for a long time. He claims his golf game has improved since he’s had both hips replaced. He says they call him “Titanium Boy” now. His business group at General Mills was sold to Flowers Foods and plans to stay there until he turns 62 in 15 months and retires or until someone else buys them out, whichever comes first. He says “HI” to all.
BARBARA LAMPSON, who worked 32 years in Kansas City, died March 28, 2009. She started in the Regional with JD PRATT and served as secretary for several GM’s in the bakery. She retired December 2005.
GEORGE Y JONES, known as a pioneer in the computerization of administrative and production functions in bakeries, died August 29, 2009. He worked for several bakeries during his career including CBC, American and Perfection.
ROGER ROWLAND, husband of MARY ROWLAND, who was Accounting Supervisor at Detroit Hostess and Wonder for many years, died September 16, 2009. He was 69 years old.
DAVID OWEN comments that the group keeps getting smaller. He still claims the newsletter is an interesting summary and sends thanks for the effort.
ART THOMPSON says that MONA fell and tore ligaments and tendons in her leg and has been on a walker for 5 weeks. They will celebrate their 67th wedding anniversary January 2, 2010.
DALE HOCHSTETLER is typing with one finger. He had some arrhythmia problems, they implanted a pace maker and defibulator and arm in a sling
WADE DUNCAN contracted colon cancer in November 2007 and they sold the motor home and had the operation. Presently tests show no new activity and the Dr. is surprised by the results. Their plans now are to purchase another motor home and continue their “camping out” with RV friends and visiting Florida or Arizona in the winter.
RAY FACENDA appreciates the newsletter and has come to the conclusion that “old age is not for sissy’s”. Ray was instrumental in getting BILL BARRONS as Editor of the West. Thanks Ray.
GENE NUZIARD sent a short note to let us know that “after pulling out of Southern California, IBC is going to re- introduce Wonder Bread there.
RON ERICKSON said the part of last newsletter concerning the status of life insurance was very interesting. He was sad to hear of BUD REED’S passing, and added, “He made me a better man”
DICK CORTLAND only pays $28 per month in Georgia for Humana Ins., which includes the drug he is on, Lovastatin, free. He also can see any doctor and get a free yearly physical. Sounds like a great deal DICK, perhaps other Excons will be interested.
|BOB WARREN, who retired 30 years ago from Beverly Hills Bakery, enjoys the newsletter but recognizes fewer names. He sent this picture of the 1951 opening day of Elmonte.
CAROLINE TIERNEY, of Garden Grove, CA enjoys the newsletter and is happy that Wonder Bread is returning to Southern California. Their son and son-in-law are both Wonder Bread Reps.
They were sorry to hear that HOWARD SPARKS passed away and added, “What a great guy!”
LEONARD fell last June 2008 and broke his hip. He’s doing OK now but not without pain.
GERARD (Jerry) DIERKER appreciates news from the CBC gang. They are celebrating their 50th this year and plan a cruise with family and friends.
BOB THIET’s love for Arizona continues to grow. They love the high country and abundance of golf courses. He plays 2 or 3 times a week and no lost days because of the weather.
ELEANOR HATTAM plans a trip to Lake Tahoe (her favorite resort) for one week. She comments that “Maybe I can hit it big to increase my donation.”
HANK ALEXANDER is in “good shape for the shape I’m in” May of 2009 marked the 60th anniversary of his employment date with CBC. July 2009 marked 25 years of retirement and May 2010 they will celebrate 60 years of marriage. He recently had a phone conversation with JOE MORGAN who started with Braun in Pittsburgh. Around 1970 he transferred to Richmond where he replaced HANK as Sales Manager. After completing Managers Training, HANK returned to Richmond as assistant to BILL BULLINGTON until his retirement later that year, when HANK replaced him. HE worked with JOE until HANK was transferred to DC to manage that bakery. JOE was later transferred to Seattle as GM.
He was very saddened by HOWARD SPARKS passing. One of his fondest memories is the retirement party HOWARD and IRMA SPARKS held at their home for him.
EDDIE TRUMBLE asked that I share his phone number and email with all of you. It’s firstname.lastname@example.org (preferred) or email@example.com. His phone is 770-409-0799
MICHAEL CHUCK has been retired 28 years and turned 91 last September 2009. They will be married 64 years in July and in fairly good health. MICHAEL’S email is firstname.lastname@example.org.
SONNY AND JODY PIPER are “hanging in there”. SONNY is reportedly doing OK after recent surgery to his right hand and elbow.
TOM FRIELINK sent encouraging words regarding the quality of the newsletter and my work. Thanks for your comments TOM!
EDSEL NELSON’S health has declined since his stroke in December ’08 but he is home now and “repairing”.
JOE ESTADES, who, by the way served in the same army unit with JACK PAULSON in Korea, and worked with MIKE ECKHOFF in St. Louis, was inspired by the comments of BILL BURNS in the last newsletter to submit the following.
BILL started in The Bronx bakery in 1948 and retired in 1989 as Director of Financial Controls reporting to JIM FALES. During the first 20 years he worked in Norristown, Bronx and Jamaica Bakeries and was sent to Mexico by CAB WOODWARD for 2 years to support the transition to CBC reporting requirements for the newly acquired Mexico Bakery. Back then they used manual calculators, comptometers and adding machines. After ITT purchased CBC new accounting systems and procedures were introduced. JERRY DIERKER rolled out a cost system and bakeries started getting computers and other modern devices. A new controllers manual was written by GIL BURROWS and replaced the Bakery Manual as the “bible”. CAB WOODWARD and JIM GRIMLY asked JOE to join the Data Processing Dept. at Rye to develop a route accounting system. It eventually became what was referred to as “The Route Pad” The sales divisions and JOE’S staff reported to BOB LEWIS of Data Processing and developed a hand held sales route pad. It built a detail database which was used for ordering, reporting and accounting entries.
PEGGY and DON MOORE report they celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary 12/22/08 with a “great party, with Christmas decorations”
AL COBURN disputes CLARK HAMLEN’S insinuation that AL, DIERKER and ROLFS were impersonating golfers. AL calls it “slander, pure unadulterated slander and to think it comes from a guy they once called friend” I must point out that all of these guys were afraid to defend themselves at the September golf outing
BOB BENNET sent a short note to say “Enjoy each issue, I’m 83 and still mobile”
FLOYD BARCUS sent his regrets he couldn’t attend the September outing this year.
BERT SCHOTT sent a note to affirm he was coming to the September outing and added his golf game hasn’t improved and a scramble “suits him just fine”
HARVEY RAATZ had been working so much in the old pumpkin patch he almost forgot to send in his dues. Hope you win a prize HARVEY.
DON SHELBY passed away 4/25/09 after a long illness. He worked many years for CBC in Little Rock, Dallas and St. Louis and was manager of Tulsa and Spokane. His wife BETTY and daughters MARY and DONNA survive him.
RAY & NORA GLICK celebrated their 57th anniversary in June 2009 and say, “all is great here”
GERALDINE BRENNAN has moved to assisted living and reports it has “everything she could desire” – like Hotel living. The view is great and weather in Albuquerque is warm, hot and sunny every day. She still drives but stays “nearby”. She visited her children, grandchildren and 3 great grandchildren in Dallas last summer. Her son still lives in Roanoke, VA and she hopes to take a trip to their beach house in Delaware next year.
MICKEY DANIELS sent her thanks for help in some important issues and asks that we “keep up the good work”
FRANK and JANE ZIERER keep busy traveling and with family. All Is well and JANE and FRANK are exercising every day.
JENNIE BOARD (Mrs, Curt Board) sent this picture of what used to be the Seattle Wonder Bakery. The bakery closed a decade ago and two years ago they tore the building down. The sign was saved, refurbished and now sits atop the apartment complex that replaced the bakery.
GEORGE HILL said the only picture he recognized was that of former co-worker at GO, ARTIE JUERS.
ALICE TEDESCO asks if anyone has heard from MARY YORK? MARY was in charge of payroll at headquarters and an old friend of ALICE. Anyone who knows can contact ALICE at 1740 Lake PL Apt A, Venice, FL 34293-1921.
CHARLES DAVIS said he had a few heart problems but is not sure if it’s really heart or just old age at 87. Anyway, he says, “it’s working OK.”
Received an email from ROSE ANN CURATOLO asking I put STAN on the email list for the newsletter. I explained he could access it on line at http://webpages.charter.net/eckhoff/news.html or if she sent an address I could mail it to him. STAN worked for Hostess LA with JIM PRITCHARD, JIM MUNDELL and RAY FACCENDA.
TOM and EMOGENE WILLIAMS as struggled this last year with EMOGENE’S health. She has been hospitalized with double pneumonia, staff infection in her blood stream, a heart attack and a mild stroke. Being hospitalized so often, they found that EMOGENE had difficulty walking and needed physical therapy. Later in the year she tripped returning from the shower and tore off a part of her big toe. It took 12 stitches to replace. Let’s all pray that EMOGENE and TOM have a less eventful year in store for them on the health side for 2010.
KEN YORK sent a message that they will be spending Christmas down in Dallas, Texas with all the family.
We are planning another golf outing and luncheon in Indiana for 2010. September seemed agreeable to all so we’ll stay with that. Details will follow in June.
JIM HOOKS emailed BILL BARRON that he had a definite interest in the newsletter and getting the EXCONS of the West together. JIM retired in June of ’06 after 12 years with the Sara Lee Corp. He’s currently involved in a small business put together by some ex-Sara Lee Exec’s who bought several small businesses from Sara Lee. JIM says, “It gives me something to do when weather is not good for golfing” He also added, “I hope you and the gang out West are all doing well. Hopefully we can get together in 2010”
Schiller Park Excons had their annual Christmas luncheon Wednesday, 12/16/09. Attending were STEVE and DIANE BERNITT, KEN and MARY KRETZ, ED and GEORGIANA OKEN and TOM NEALON. JOE FELICE was not feeling well enough to attend, but says “HELLO” to all Excons.
AL and SHIRLEY NALBANDIAN went to 6 games of the Red Sox spring training in March and a 7-day cruise in April. SHIRLEY used a cane most of the trip caused by pain in her left hip, knee and ankle. April 20th she had a MRI. She received no relief until August, when going for an injection in her lower back, they found a cyst laying on her nerves. After pin pointing it she has been pain free. They went on a 5 day cruise September 28th to celebrate SHIRLEY being pain and cancer free. They plan a 14 day cruise in December from Miami to LA then stay with friends, CLIFF and KAY SEHORN for a couple of days.